MARCH 14, 2006
VCU
WEBCAST


Captioning Provided By:  Caption First, Inc.



    >> CONNIE FERRELL:  Let's get started talking about plan for 
achieving self-support.  I love the name of this work incentive.  
We call it PASS for short.  If you ever forget, exactly how does 
that work incentive work?  Go back to the name.  It's about an 
individual having a plan that involves working, and as a result 
of the working, the individual would be more self-supporting.
 
    Let's take a look at how it works.  I know that many of you 
have already had an introduction to PASS, but it doesn't hurt to 
take time, review the mechanics, review the purpose of the PASS, 
look at how it affects the SSI calculations before we begin to 
dig in more depth as to who is a good candidate, how do we as a 
benefit specialist assist the person in developing a PASS.  And 
then how does it get submitted and approved.  We will cover 
those subjects over the course of these two parts of this 
webcast.  We are starting at the beginning though as if we have 
forgotten what PASS is all about. 

    Let's take a look.  If a person has an employment plan, that 
is a critical piece, it's all about working, isn't it?  And by 
saying we have an employment plan, you haven't achieved your 
employment goal yet.  You have a plan.  If you can figure out 
how to achieve that work goal, that employment goal, the result 
of it would make you more self-supporting than you currently 
are. 

    Remember, in the world of SSI, that would mean if you were 
self-supporting, you would less rely on SSI.  That would be a 
good deal for the taxpayer, right?  The way this work incentive 
works, it allows that person, that is on SSI or could be on SSI 
to specify and/or set aside resources, possibly income, 
possibly, or maybe a combination, and in order to pay for the 
goods and services that they need in order to have a chance of 
even achieving that vocational goal. 

    You know and I know we have run across many a person who would 
love to go to work, and has a goal they would like to proceed 
towards, but there are expensive items that they may need or 
services they may need.  They can't figure out how to get a leg 
up towards self-support. 

    That is what PASS, where PASS can come into play and help bust 
that barrier out of the way. 

    Remember the whole purpose of that PASS is, if it's a means to 
acquire those services and items that are needed to start work.  
We have to discern that as being different from the intent of 
impairment related work expense because the purpose of a PASS is 
not to make income and resources available for goods and 
services for ongoing costs. 

    For instance, if I was for as long as I ever am going to work 
have a certain transportation cost, a PASS is not just designed 
to go on and on forever, paying for that transportation cost.  
That is a maintenance cost. 

    It's designed to help a person get started towards that goal. 
    To get that leg up, to get started towards self-support, and 
hopefully they are earning enough money to pay for items and 
goods that are ongoing then.  We will talk about in part 2 
tomorrow about how sometimes an expense that started out as a 
PASS later on gets rolled over into being an impairment related 
work expense.  It's helping you get bump started towards the 
vocational goal.  It increases or helps you maintain income 
producing capability by having those goods and services you 
need. 

    Notice those words.  PASS increases or maintains income-
producing capabilities.  Nine times out of ten, when we are 
using a PASS, the individual involved is trying to increase 
their income producing capability. 

    Remember, we said it's going to help you be more self-
supporting. 

    But there are certain situations in which a person can use a 
PASS to maintain the income producing capability they already 
have, particularly in the instance that they are at risk for 
losing that income producing capability. 

    I'll try to give an example of that later as we go along. 
    Right now, let's continue looking at the basic purpose of 
PASS.  When a PASS is approved, basically Social Security, and 
the PASS expert is saying, it looks like there is a reasonable 
chance this person can achieve their vocational goal.  There 
doesn't have to be a guarantee.  There is no guarantees about 
what our future holds.  There just needs to be a reasonable 
chance that an individual can pursue the vocational goal they 
have identified and to the best of our ability to see into the 
future, it looks as if things go well, that person should be 
able to achieve that goal. 

    There has to be a clear connection between the vocational goal 
and increased earnings capacity.  Remember the main purpose of 
that PASS is, you either are going to work or you are increasing 
your work hours or going after a job that pays more.  The result 
is you are going to be having more income coming in, due to 
working; and therefore, needing less SSI in the long run. 

    It's meant to help a person to compete in the job market.  If 
a person is needing a particular type of training, or education, 
or certification, or equipment, or transportation means, in 
order to compete towards a job that would help them be more 
self-supporting, a PASS may be an ideal mechanism to help that 
individual to acquire those things they need in order to be 
competitive in the job market. 

    So people may think, I have wanted to do this, but I'm needing 
a car or needing to go to school.  I cannot figure out how I can 
afford to do that.  I can barely pay my basic living costs.  The 
purpose of the PASS is that it can make it financially feasible 
for that person to set aside income they already have, or maybe 
going to get in the future, or resources they have, and replace 
the money they are setting aside, with extra SSI, with which to 
pay their basic living expenses. 

    It helps that individual to be able to pay for the expenses, 
replace the income that they are using for the expenses, to be 
able to live on. 

    Remember that the whole purpose of a SSI check going to an 
individual is to help them to cover room and board.  Keep a roof 
over their head, food in the mouth, so if you are taking the 
money you have been using to put the roof over the head, put the 
food in the mouth and you use it to pay tuition, using it to buy 
goods and services, the SSI increase is actually replacing that 
for your living expenses. 

    One of the things that many people love about PASS is that 
PASS also provides that person with a disability the opportunity 
to self-direct the vocational rehabilitation process. 

    A person can certainly be enrolled in, and participating in a 
vocational rehabilitation plan, with state vocational 
rehabilitation.  They may be working with a private vocational 
rehabilitation counselor.  They could be using their ticket to 
work and utilizing the services of an EN.  But, they may be 
doing none of the above.  They may be strictly designing their 
own vocational plan, buying their own goods and services and 
using the PASS as a means to be able to help them be able to 
move through that. 

    I've known many people that for whatever their personal 
reasons, they don't want to go sign up for vocational 
rehabilitation services or use the more traditional means to 
achieve a vocational goal.  The PASS does not require that.  It 
does give that person the opportunity to totally self-direct the 
process, as long as they stay within the PASS guidelines. 

    Just as a quick summary, as we have looked at what the purpose 
of the PASS is anyway, is first of all it's meant to be a 
flexible tool.  As we go through, you will see it is quite 
flexible.  You can't just do anything in the world you want to 
do.  But it's very flexible.  The types of goals that you can be 
pursuing are as wide as there are job opportunities in this 
world. 

    You can be working towards self-employment, working for 
someone else, you can be looking at moving from a part time 
entry level position into full time semi-skilled or skill level 
employment.  It has just a ton of flexibility in terms of the 
types of goals you can proceed towards.  How you design the 
milestones to achieve your goals, and what types of goods and 
services you can pay for and then get and recoups some of the 
cost via the PASS.  It allows resources to not be counted when 
there is determination for eligibility of SSI or if you are on 
SSI in calculating the amount of your SSI check. 

    In summary, if you have a PASS, the money that you have 
specified that you are going to use for goods and services is as 
if Social Security is ignoring that that money even exists. 

    When you take that out of the equation, the individual 
qualifies for more SSI than they would otherwise, given the 
basic SSI formula. 

    In addition, remember that the SSI amount could be being 
increased because you have excluded certain income that was 
bringing down the amount of SSI you were entitled to, or it 
could be that it's making you qualify for the very first time 
for SSI.  Because you have set aside whatever income before 
disqualified you from SSI, such as unearned income.  Remember 
that a PASS does not mean that Social Security is buying the 
goods and services related to your vocational goal.  They are 
not.  You buy it with your own money if you are the SSI 
recipient.  PASS doesn't pay for college tuition.  It doesn't 
pay for the car you are buying.  Instead, the individual on SSI 
is saying, I'm going to pay for the tuition.  I'm going to pay 
for the car.  What SSI, extra SSI pays for, is your living 
expenses.  With the presumption that if you are paying for these 
other educational expenses, training expenses, etcetera, you 
don't have the money to pay for your living expenses and then 
the extra SSI pays for those. 

    Other factors can also make PASS advantageous such as in some 
cases, the individual who wasn't on SSI before, by becoming SSI 
eligible, via PASS approval, may also then become eligible for 
Medicaid.  We all know that Medicaid is a powerful health 
insurance and support provider for many people with 
disabilities. 

    Let me give you a word of caution.  Trying to get Medicaid 
eligibility should not drive the planning of a PASS.  That is 
the cart before the horse, isn't it?  We know in reality, 
sometimes that need for medical insurance and coverage and the 
need for Medicaid is, there is the main thing on the person's 
mind, the main thing they are concerned about.  They are like, I 
have to do something to have my medical costs covered. 

    But, if the Medicaid eligibility is the primary driving force 
behind the PASS, and particularly if the individual is not that 
interested in going to work, but is like, okay, let me come up 
with something to put down as a vocational goal in order so I 
can get Medicaid, that is not going to probably be enough 
motivation around working to take you through the whole process 
of the hard work it takes to get a job, learn a job, keep a job, 
show up to that job on your bad hair days, so please don't let 
the cart get before the horse in your work with people.  That 
goal of PASS is not to qualify for Medicaid.  That is a side 
benefit for some individuals. 

    Okay.  We have to start with looking at the whole issue of the 
income and resources.  If we don't understand the basic 
mechanics of how an approved PASS affects the income and 
resources test, in the SSI system, then we miss the boat in 
terms of understanding the capability of PASS.  We may find 
ourselves encouraging an individual towards PASS development and 
they put a lot of work into it, only to find out that when you 
start putting down the dollars and cents on paper, it doesn't 
work out.  It's important for you as a benefit specialist to 
understand exactly how an approved PASS affects the income and 
resources test, in the SSI system. 

    We know that you can have the most disabling disability in the 
world and not qualify for SSI.  Unless you are low income, and 
you have very few resources.  The whole notion behind PASS is it 
allows the Social Security Administration to exclude some income 
and some resources that otherwise would count and could 
potentially either lower your eligibility for SSI cash payment, 
or totally eliminate your eligibility for SSI. 

    What are you setting aside?  What are you saying that you are 
going to spend for the services and goods associated with your 
PASS?  It could be earned income.  So, an individual could be 
already working, let's say working part time or working at 
minimum wage, or maybe working in a shelter workshop or less 
than minimum wage.  If an individual has any earned income, they 
can be, they can say I want you to pretend that earned income 
doesn't exist.  I'll set it aside in my PASS to pay for the 
training I need to get a better job paying more money.
 
    Or, maybe you haven't started a job, but you are going to be 
starting a job soon.  You are saying, I'm going to write this 
PASS, and the first paycheck that I get, I'm going to begin 
setting aside earned income, into my PASS account in order to 
pay for goods and services to make that job work out, such as 
maybe job coaching services. 

    It's, it can be wages.  It can be wages from working for 
someone else, it could be self-employment wages, that an owner 
draw, if you have a sole proprietorship.  It can be certain 
royalties or bonus pay.  Anything that would qualify an earned, 
as earned income is potentially a source you can set aside in a 
PASS to pay for goods and services. 

    It's not limited to that.  You can also set aside unearned 
income.  If you are on Title 2, Social Security, already, maybe 
you are receiving a CDB check or SSDI check.  You can set that 
amount or portion of that amount aside in a PASS, and have it 
then replaced with SSI. 

    You may be on Social Security only.  Maybe you are not even on 
SSI.  The reason you are not on SSI is because you have too much 
Social Security, too much unearned income.  You could be setting 
aside some of the unearned income and then qualify for SSI.  We 
will talk more about this as we go along.  There are other 
sources for unearned income that you can set aside; deemed 
income, for instance.  There are a couple situations in which 
I'm sure you work with people that they have deeming that 
applies.  If you work with people under age 18, which I hope you 
are, they could possibly be getting less than a full SSI check, 
because part of the parent's income is being deemed to the 
child.  If that parent was willing to at that time money that 
currently is being deemed, and set that into a PASS account for 
the child, then that money can be replaced in an increased SSI 
check, that can go towards household expenses, etc. 

    Other benefits, such as in kind support.  That is a perfect 
example.  As we go along, I will show you an example before this 
day is out of how in kind support can be translated into paying 
for goods and services and result in increased SSI checks. 

    Maybe you don't have income.  Maybe you aren't on SSI, but 
it's not because of excess income, it's because of excess 
resources.  Maybe you have a bank account that has $5,000 in it 
or $10,000 in it.  You can set those resources or a portion of 
those resources aside into a PASS account to pay for goods and 
services and have those resources excluded from the resource 
test.  And therefore, you become qualified for SSI. 

    Again, it can be any combination of the above.  It can be any 
one of those sources, earned, unearned, resources, or it could 
be a combination of all three.
 
    What happens if you set aside income into a PASS account, you 
are saying exclude these because I'll use them for approved 
goods and services.  What is happening, when you do the SSI 
calculation, when Social Security Administration follows the 
four-step SSI calculation, that all of us are well familiar 
with, you basically aren't putting that source that you have 
identified and have been approved as a PASS expense, you don't 
take that source of money and plug it into that calculation. 

    You plug in a zero there or just a portion that is not 
excluded.  That changes the whole calculation.  When you get to 
step 4 of the calculation, you have recouped a portion or all of 
the SSI up to the federal benefit rate. 

    We will show some examples in case this is just too abstract 
for you at this point.  We will show you a few calculations.  
You can see how this works. 

    Tomorrow I'm going to dig in a little deeper on who makes for 
a good candidate for a PASS and who doesn't.  Last thing we want 
to do is spend a lot of time getting a person's hopes up about 
using a PASS, to help pursue vocational goals, and then we look 
closer and go, oops, you are not a candidate for a PASS. 

    But to have this tucked into your brain because you will need 
it when you do your homework tonight, there are some people who 
are not good candidates for PASS.  For instance, an individual 
who is not eligible for SSI currently, for other reasons besides 
excess income or resources, a PASS is not going to work for 
them.  Let's say that the reason you are not a SSI candidate 
currently is because your disability doesn't qualify.  This 
isn't going to help you to qualify.  You are not a good 
candidate for PASS or any of the other eligibility requirements.  
Let's say you are in prison.  This is not going to help you. 

    Individuals who are unable to pursue occupational goals due to 
their conditions.  At this point, are not a good candidate for a 
PASS.  I happen to believe anybody can work.  But if you are 
lying in a hospital in a coma, at this point you are unable to 
pursue an occupational goal.  It doesn't mean that at a later 
point, when your condition has improved some, that this is not 
allowable, but at this point in time, it's not, due to your 
condition you are not in a position to be able to pursue a 
vocational goal. 

    Please, benefits counselors, don't try to guess when a person 
can and can't pursue a vocational goal.  Let's, we have the 
training of responsibility and authority of benefits specialist, 
but to decide who pursue and can't pursue, that is the job of 
the Social Security Administration and rehab personnel. 

    Other folks, if you are already currently self-supporting, 
maybe you used to be on PASS.  You are working so much that you 
are totally off of SSI at this point.  You are going, I wish I 
could get my SSI back.  Maybe I'll write a PASS now.  There are 
some exceptions to every rule but in general, you are not a 
candidate for PASS, because you are already self-supporting at a 
level that you have already disengaged from the SSI system. 

    In some cases, an unlikely candidate is going to be somebody 
who tried to use a PASS in the past, and it didn't go well.  
Either they finished the PASS but they never pursued employment, 
never achieved employment.  Remember you don't ever know on the 
outset when you start on a PASS, you don't know for sure that 
you can make that PASS come true.  But basically, if you went 
through the PASS and you didn't even try to get a job, it's 
going to be difficult to get another PASS. 

    If you worked towards a PASS, you gave it your absolute all, 
and it didn't work out, and there were justifiable reasons for 
that though, there is no reason in the world why that person 
can't have another PASS.  You can have as many PASSs in a 
lifetime as you can get approved.  You just can't have more than 
one for the same PASS goal, and if you have done a PASS and it 
wasn't successful and the reason it wasn't successful is because 
you weren't trying to seek employment, you are going to have a 
difficult time getting another PASS. 

    In addition, what about people who don't have any income or 
resources to set aside?  For instance, lets say you are already 
getting a full SSI check, full federal benefit rate.  You want 
to go to school in order to get a degree before you start 
working.  If you are not working, and you don't have any income 
other than your SSI, you have no resources, you have nothing to 
set aside in a PASS.  At that point you are an unlikely 
candidate.  Or maybe you say, I don't want to set aside my 
earned income or I don't want to set aside my unearned income.  
I need that and I need a full SSI check.  You may need it but 
you can't get it approved.  You have to be willing to set aside 
some money that you already have towards the PASS expenses, in 
order to have a PASS. 

    There are people who don't need anything in order to pursue a 
job.  All they are needing is to get the job.  If there is not 
some type of goods and services that are needed in order to get 
that job, learn that job, keep that job, that would make you 
more self-supporting, at this point in the game you are not a 
likely candidate for a PASS.  We will dig into some more detail 
on some of that tomorrow. 

    Right now, let's talk about when in the world would you do a 
PASS?  Can you do it as soon as you get on SSI?  Absolutely.  
Can you do it before you get on SSI?  Absolutely.  Do you have 
to be at least 18?  Absolutely not.  The way the PASS reads, you 
need to be 15 or older.  The truth of the matter is I've heard 
of exceptions even to that. 

    If you are generally speaking, if you are 15 or older, you can 
have a PASS.  If you are over 65, you just need to have gotten 
on SSI before you turned 65.  Then you still can have a PASS.  
You can develop it at any time.  You can develop it as soon as 
you get on SSI.  You might have been on SSI for 20 years, or 
contemplating employment for 20 years.  You can do it at any 
point in time.  If you are receiving SSI already, you have 
already met the initial eligibility criteria, you don't have to 
go through that step.  All you have to do is have a vocational 
goal, work up a plan, submit the application, Social Security 
approves it, and you are in business.  You have a PASS 
operating.  If you are not already on SSI, and have in the past 
approved, that would make you eligible for SSI, there is two 
steps to the process.  You have to go through the process of 
applying for and being accepted for SSI simultaneously, while 
the PASS is being looked at.  We will talk more about those 
kinds of situations tomorrow. 

    PASS specialists or, or they will be referred to as PASS 
experts play a vital role in the application and review process.  
They are Social Security's well trained cadre of PASS experts 
that know all the rules.  They received the PASSs.  They look 
through them.  They work with the individual to modify it if it 
needs modified.  And they approve them or disapprove them.  They 
monitor the progress of the PASS once it's in place. 

    They are very critical.  They should, you should know them.  
By now if you are a benefits specialist, been in your job more 
than six months, you should personally know your PASS specialist 
for your area of the country.  In your resources that are listed 
in your materials, it will tell you how to find out who your 
PASS specialists are and how to contact them.  If you have not 
already met them, take some time to make a phone call, to 
introduce yourself and figure out protocol about how you can 
work together effectively over time. 

    All right.  We will get into the mechanics.  We will look at 
the mass of it all now.  Wages excluded under a PASS cannot be 
deducted.  We have to remember this, from gross wages to meet 
the SGA criteria.  Everything we are going to talk about in 
terms of Social Security pretending that wages don't exist in 
order to increase a SSI check, when we talk about that, you have 
to maintain in your brain the fact that even though Social 
Security is ignoring those wages for the income and resources 
test, they would not be ignoring those wages any time a person 
is subject to a SGA test. 

    So if the person is concurrently on SSDI and SSI, the wages 
may be being excluded from the income and resources test for the 
SSI calculation, but if the individual is earning over SGA, and 
they are past the trial work period, it's still going to result 
in a cessation decision, and the loss of the Title 2 check.  
That has to be taken in consideration. 

    The PASS approval has no impact on the SGA criteria.  Remember 
that. 
    If you are establishing a PASS to meet the income and 
resources test initially, the PASS expense can simultaneously be 
computed as an IRWE, to reduce wages for the SGA test, okay, 
because you remember if you are not on SSI yet, and you are 
doing the PASS, trying to become eligible for SSI you have to go 
through the eligibility determination.  What is number one on 
the five-step disability determination?  Criteria?  We all know 
that is not engaged in SGA.  Right?  So if you are already 
working, and you are submitting a PASS, and you are hoping with 
the PASS that you would be approved for SSI for the first time, 
if you are over SGA, you have a problem getting in the door 
under the SSI roles because the number one of the disability 
criteria is, you are not engaged in SGA. 

    However, if the expense, some of the expenses that you are 
excluding under the PASS would have also counted as an IRWE, 
then those IRWE approvable expenses can be excluded from the 
earned income during the disability eligibility criteria 
process, as an IRWE to bring down the countable wages below the 
SGA level. 

    If that would happen, it's important to report that in order 
for the person to qualify initially, and meet the disability 
determination, the SGA criteria, disability determination 
process, to then become SSI eligible.  Otherwise, you don't have 
a PASS.  Because you can't have a PASS unless you can qualify to 
be on the SSI rolls. 

    Lots of double speak.  But it's an important piece.  Go back 
over that and look at it carefully if I lost you as I was 
describing it. 
    Once an individual meets both the SGA and the income and 
resources test, this individual who wasn't already on the SSI 
rolls, then they are accepted on the SSI rolls and the actual 
amount of their cash benefit for SSI is computed using the four-
step SSI calculation work sheet. 

    All right.  Let's go right to that SSI calculation work sheet.  
This is maybe, 24 hours since you looked at this formula, so 
let's first review the SSI calculation without a PASS.  Let's 
pretend there is no PASS in consideration.  We know the step 1.  
We always look at unearned income.  Our example, in your 
handout, we have this person has unearned income of $220.  We 
know we exclude the first 20.  We have countable unearned income 
of $200.  Step 2 of the SSI calculation always has to do with 
earned income.  This particular individual currently has $462 of 
gross earned income.  We already used up our $20 general income 
exclusion.  Now we subtract minus 65.  We divide by 2.  That 
means we have a remainder of $198.50 of countable earned income.  
We know that on step 3, we always add the result from step 1, 
which was 200, and the result from step 2, which was 198.50, for 
total countable income of $398.50.  Right now we are pretending 
this person doesn't have a PASS.  If they have 398.50 of total 
countable income, that comes off the federal benefit rate.  This 
year that amount is $603.  We would be left with a SSI payment 
of $204.50. 

    Let's take that same person, say they got this part-time job 
earning $462 a month, but they have a grand plan to go get their 
welding license, they are going to take a welding class and get 
certified as a welder.  And get a full-time job, earning good 
money as a welder. 

    They write a PASS.  They want to use some of their unearned 
income and some of their earned income in their current part-
time job to pay for taking welding classes they will take in the 
evenings.  Say that is what we are doing.  We will at that time 
same person, they have written their PASS.  They have submitted 
it, the PASS expert approved the PASS.  Here is what happens. 

    On unearned income it looks exactly the same.  $220, minus 20, 
is $200.  The second step looks the same.  They are still 
working their part-time job, $462 a month.  Minus 65, divide by 
2.  Is 198.50 of countable earned income.  We get to step 3.  
Starts out looking the same.  200, plus 198.50, is 398.  This is 
where Social Security then excludes whatever was approved in 
terms of PASS expenses.  This individual has said I'm going to 
need $150 a month, towards the cost associated with getting my 
welding classes done. 

    They have asked to have $150 of their total countable income 
excluded as PASS expenses.  What Social Security does is say, if 
the 398.50 we were going to take off the federal benefit rate, 
we are going to exclude 150.  We will pretend 150 of that total 
countable income doesn't exist, because you need that to pay for 
your welding classes.  They only count $248.50 of the 398.50. 

    Instead of taking 398.50 off of the 603, we are taking 248.50 
off 398.50.  I mean, we are taking 248.50 off of the 603, which 
means that the SSI check is $354.50. 

    If you compare that to the way it was before, you will see 
this SSI payment is exactly $150 higher than it was before the 
PASS expense was taken off. 

    They recovered the full cost that was excluded for the PASS 
expense.  They recouped 100 percent. 
    They exclude 150.  They got an extra 150 in the SSI check.  
Technically, that increase in the SSI check was not to pay for 
the welding classes.  No.  They were using their other sources 
of income, that combination of earned and unearned to pay for 
the welding classes.  The increase in the SSI check was to 
replace that money that they spent, so that they can use it 
towards their basic living expenses. 

    All right?  Okay.  Now we will try a couple permutations of 
this.  Sometimes you don't recover 100 percent.  You are only 
going to recover 100 percent up to the point it brings you back 
up to a full federal benefit rate. 

    Let's look at your next example.  In this case this person has 
$450 of unearned income, minus 20 is 430 of countable unearned 
income.  They are working, earning $450 a month.  We subtract 
65.  We divide by 2.  We have 192.50 of countable earned income.  
We get to our step 3.  430, plus 192.50, 622.50. 

    622.50 is more than 603.  Isn't it?  This person thought 
they would be real slick, and take all of the 622.50, that was 
the countable income, and put that aside towards PASS expenses.  
They said, they were going to take 622.50 off of my check.  So 
instead, I'll spend 622.50 of my unearned and earned money on my 
welding classes.  But look at this. 

    You are not going to get to 622 back, are you?  You are only 
going to get 603 back.  Because if the amount that you are 
spending on your PASS expenses is more than the federal benefit 
rate for that year, you will only recover up to the point that 
it brings you back up to a full federal benefit rate.  This 
particular individual is going to have to pay $58.50 of that 
622, out of something else.  They are not going to get it in an 
increased SSI check. 

    They might want to go back and recalculate, and say, maybe 
I'll save the money more months for school and only do 603 a 
month instead of 622.  If they want to do 622, they can.  That 
is perfectly fine if they want to, as long as it still leaves 
them enough money to pay for the basic living expenses.  We will 
talk about that more in our next session that comes up tomorrow. 

    There are times when your expenses that you have planned out 
for your PASS are more than the countable income.  Our last 
example, the amount exceeded the federal benefit rate.  In this 
example it exceeds the total countable income that was going to 
come off the federal benefit rate.  In this example we will use 
an example where a person has no unearned income.  Step 1, we 
have a zero.  Step 2, $500 of earned income, we subtract 20.  
Subtract 65.  Divide by 2.  We have a countable earned income of 
$207.50. 

    That is all that was going to come off the SSI check anyway 
was $207.50.  Let's go to step 3.  We bring the answer from step 
1 which is zero.  Your answer from step 2, 207.50.  Makes a 
total of $207.50, a total countable income.  This person is 
saying that they are going to set aside $350 a month towards 
their PASS expenses, towards their vocational goal.  But 350 is 
more than 207.50.  With the SSI, you never go in a negative.  
You say 207.50 is what SSI was going if take off the federal 
benefit rate.  But minus 350, so they are going to take nothing 
off of the federal benefit rate. 

    They are not going to say, gee, let's give you an extra 
142.50, since you have so much PASS expense.  Let's give you the 
603 plus another $142.50.  No, they are not going to do that 
instead, your costs are exceeding what they were going to take 
off anyway.  You are only going to recover 100 percent up to the 
point that it is the amount that they were going to take off 
which was the total countable income. 

    Part of the work of the benefits specialist with the 
individual whose life this is, is to try to figure out an 
expenditure pattern, that helps them to be able to have a 
financially viable plan.  They can't be so ambitious with what 
they are putting aside every month or spending every month that 
you got a PASS that requires them to put so much money aside, 
they are not going to have enough money to live on.  Because 
that is not going to help anybody.  That will be a failed PASS, 
because the person inevitably will have to not put the money in 
that they said they were going to put in because they will need 
it for living expenses.  It won't get approved by Social 
Security.  Part of our job is to juggle the figures with the 
individual and try to help them work it out in a way that is 
financially viable.  Has a good chance of financially 
succeeding. 

    I promised, as much as you hate those old rules about in-kind 
support.  I promised to do a quick review of how in the world 
you can use in kind support, in a PASS.  Remember when you were 
talking in-kind support, there are different kinds.  There is 
VTR, value of reduction.  That is where you are living in 
someone else's household and paying nothing towards your portion 
of the household expenses.  When that is the case, they lop a 
third off the federal benefit rate.  Step 1 looks the same as it 
always does.  In this case we have no unearned income of step 1.  
We have 595 of earned income.  Minus 65.  Divide by 2.  We have 
$255 of countable earned income.  We get to our step 3.  You 
have $255 of total countable income.  This individual wants to 
set aside $405.66 a month in the PASS.  But look at that.  Your 
total countable income is only $255.  For one thing, you are 
over the countable income amount.  But also, look at your 
federal benefit rate down on the next line. 

    It's 402.  Not 603.  Because if this person is living in 
someone else's household, paying nothing on household expenses, 
they are not eligible for 603.  The most they will get while 
they are in that code in the Social Security system is $402.  
Even though their expenses have canceled out any countable 
income and they are eligible for the full amounts of SSI, their 
full amount is $402.  They are spending 405.66, they are 
recouping 402.  That is the best they can do. 

    But now we know that an individual who may be living in 
someone else's household or living somewhere else may not, would 
not be, they are living in someone else's household and paying a 
portion of their household expenses or they are living on their 
own and someone is helping them to some extent.  They are not 
under the VTR rule.  They don't have an automatic one third 
reduction.  They are in under the PMV rule which is presumed 
maximum value.  In that case, instead of lopping off a third off 
the federal benefit rate on step 4, what happens is, Social 
Security comes over to step 1, and plugs in the value of someone 
else's contribution towards your household expenses, as unearned 
income. 

    In this particular example, this individual is living in 
someone else's household and the individual is paying some on 
the household expenses, but a parent or someone that they are 
living with is contributing $213 towards that person's fair 
share of the household expenses.  That is our example we are 
giving.  How that would work is, they would say, you may not 
have money of $213 coming in, but you have in-kind support of 
213 coming in.  In this case it's not presumed maximum value, 
it's the actual value of the in-kind support. 

    We treat it like unearned income.  213 minus 20 is 193.  We go 
to our step 2, like we always do.  595, in this case it's what 
the person is earning for working, minus 65.  Divide by 2.  
Leaves us with $265 of countable earned income. 

    We get to step 3.  We add results of step 1, 193 of unearned 
income.  Remember it wasn't money.  It's in-kind support.  But 
it's counted as money.  Plus the 265 from step 2.  Gives us a 
total countable income of $458. 

    What in the world can we do with this?  For a PASS?  Well, 
let's go back and think about this for a minute.  Because that 
213 that was on the top line, I told you that that wasn't money 
someone in the household was giving the person.  It's room and 
board that they were giving the person.  If this individual can 
go back to whoever that is, say it's a parents, and say, mom, I 
want to start paying my fair share of the household expenses.  
But you have been great to help out by paying for some of my 
food and utilities.  Would you be willing instead of paying for 
my food and utilities, and rent, my share of it, to pay some of 
my college tuition?  Same amount of money, but use it for a 
different purpose.  Contribute it towards my vocational goal.  
Then what happens is, if the parent or whoever that person is, 
that is giving the in-kind support says, all right, if you can 
make up the difference on the household expenses, then I'll take 
the money I was using to help support you, help you pay for your 
PASS expenses, then what happens is that that can come right 
off, and the individual can actually be utilizing that money 
towards that college expenses or their transportation or 
whatever the costs are associated with their PASS program. 

    That is a little hard to follow.  But if you think about it, 
you will get it.  It requires some negotiation, and agreement on 
the part of the provider of the in-kind support.  But since it's 
being counted as unearned income anyway, it's subject to being 
included as being excluded for PASS expenses and therefore, this 
person can recover that in-kind support cost, that they had 
before, in the form of dollars in a SSI check, then they will 
need to turn around and pay it towards their share of the 
household expenses. 

    I hope you are following that.  If you are not, that would be 
a perfect question for our chat room and for our question and 
answer session. 

    It's a little tricky.  But it's absolutely doable.  Okay?  I 
think if I remember correctly, there is also an example of that 
in the Palms.  That may be helpful to you as well. 

    PASS etiquette.  Please don't get the person's hopes up, if 
there is no chance that they can even use a PASS.  Remember, I 
told you we talked a little about unlikely candidates.  I told 
you we will talk about that in depth tomorrow.  But please start 
there as a benefits specialist.  Looking at the potential a 
person has at all for even using a PASS, before you even start 
getting into a lot of detail with the person and getting them 
excited about the possibility of using a PASS, do a little 
exploration.  Verify benefits first.  Then think of what the 
person is telling you in terms of what their dreams and hopes 
are, what barriers they have, as to whether it's a good time to 
introduce the possibility of PASS.  Don't get in the game of 
deciding who might be successful and who might not.  But at 
least do that first quick and dirty assessment of whether or not 
this person even is a candidate for PASS. 

    If you follow some of the steps we will be talking about 
through this rest of today and tomorrow, it will help you to 
have the information you need and help the person have the 
information they need to support a decision around whether or 
not to use a PASS.  I know a benefits specialist who spent hours 
and hours and hours and hours with one of the clients of 
benefits counseling, all to discover after it was all said and 
done, that the individual was not willing to set aside money for 
the PASS, no matter what she said.  So again, doing some kind of 
up-front assessment is a good idea, both in terms of not setting 
a person up for something and then having to say, sorry, this 
doesn't apply to you, but also, in terms of saving some of your 
own precious time in the course of doing benefits counseling.  
Clarify, the person has to clarify vocational goals.  They have 
to be able to have a vocational goal.  That is something Social 
Security can't help with.  It has to be one they already 
achieved, and if they achieved it, would make it less dependent 
on benefits.  There is an urban myth that says you have to be 
off SSI totally as a result of a vocational goal.  Absolutely 
not.  That is not true.  You just need to be less dependent on 
SSI, than you were before you started. 

    You can be already enrolled in VR or have an EN.  You don't 
have to.  But if you do already, please as a benefits specialist 
don't reinvent the wheel.  Get the person if they already have 
it to get a copy of their IPE or IWP and work with that plan 
that is already together and kind of mold that into what you 
need in terms of information for the PASS application.  It is a 
good idea for a person to attach a copy of that to the PASS 
application.  Explain the rules and process of the PASS to the 
individual.  Remember we are all about informed choice. 

    Help the person to develop a good current listing, and a 
future projection of monthly expenses.  We have a work sheet 
sample in your resources there.  You can set up a Excel sheet, 
whatever works.  But it's important to help the person establish 
what do you need to live on before you start this PASS.  What 
are you going to need to live on once you start working towards 
this vocational objective?  We need to spell those out.  You 
have to have that information to have an approvable PASS.  You 
are looking at current expenses.  You are looking at expenses 
that are going to be part of achieving the goals.  You are 
looking at any expenses that maybe you currently have, that you 
are not going to have when you get into the PASS.  Such as maybe 
now you are paying for some medications because you are not on 
title -- not on SSI, but if you get on SSI, you will have 
Medicaid that will pick up some expenses.  You may have a 
decreased section 8 housing rental responsibility as a result of 
having a PASS.  Because HUD recognizes incoming resource 
exclusions that are in a PASS.  If it got excluded and into the 
PASS shall it will also be excluded by HUD, and I think in all 
states, also by food stamps.  I wouldn't swear to that but I 
believe that is the case as well. 

    In addition, what will happen, if this person gets this PASS 
approved, the Social Security PASS specialist is going to be 
reviewing it from time to time, to make sure the person is on 
target, they are meeting their different short term objectives 
or milestones, that they are doing their -- they are in 
compliance with the PASS plan.  It's a good idea for benefits 
specialists if the person is willing to accept this, to also do 
the same thing.  Set yourself up touch points, to touch base 
with the individual, have the person touch base with you and 
review what they, or keep it in terms of records, give them 
suggestions.  Try to do this ahead of Social Security PASS 
expert doing their reviews, so your touch points can come in 
ahead of their touch points.  It would be a good idea.  Almost 
always, Social Security is going to review a new PASS, within 
six months of starting up, just to make sure the person is off 
to a good start.  They are going to review it at least annually 
thereafter, maybe more often depending on whether a person is 
completing a milestone short of 12 months.  You need to set your 
touch points up in accordance with when those touch points would 
be for Social Security Administration.  Potential impact on a 
PASS, remember the individual when they get a PASS approved is 
agreeing on that PASS application to tell Social Security any 
time anything changes.  If you move, marry, get more resources, 
start or stop working, have an increase or decrease in pay, 
anything that changes from what you said in the PASS or what you 
projected in the PASS, the best thing for the person to do is 
inform that PASS specialist.  Because even if the PASS 
specialist says, thanks for telling me, you didn't need to tell 
me that, better to over report than under report.  The last 
thing the person needs is end up having a PASS that they want to 
work towards, terminated because they did not comply with this 
agreement to report any changes.  That is extremely important. 

    You can stop a PASS.  If you say, that's it, I thought I 
wanted to be a nurse but I faint every time I see blood, forget 
it.  I don't want to work this PASS.  I don't know what I want 
to do.  I don't know if I want to do anything.  But I need to 
stop this PASS.  You can ask Social Security to terminate a 
PASS.  Social Security may decide to terminate because you are 
not in compliance, you are not spending the money on what you 
were saying you were going to spend it on.  But in some cases a 
person may need to suspend the PASS, take a break.  Maybe you 
got sick.  You need to take a couple semesters off from school.  
Social Security can put a PASS into suspension for up to 12 
months.  As soon as you are ready to get going on it again, they 
can pull it out of suspension and you can pick up and go again.  
There is two different processes.  If you are working with 
someone that is like, I don't know if I can do this PASS, I 
wanted to but things are different now, part of your job is to 
help them make a decision in terms of whether they want to stop 
permanently working towards that goal and stop that PASS or 
whether they are not sure and so maybe it would be better to 
suspend it and figure it out then.  If there is any doubt, 
encourage the person to ask for suspended, not stopped.  Because 
if it stays suspended for 12 months and they go, okay, I'm done 
with that, it's going to go into termination anyway.  But if 
there is any doubt at all, go suspension, don't go termination.
 
    I think I just covered that on your next slide.  Let's take a 
minute and look at PASS when there is a person who is on Title 
2. 
    Again, I got to restate it.  Remember that the PASS does not 
affect anything having to do with the Title 2 beneficiaries, 
Title 2 time clock.  The PASS has no impact whatsoever on the 
trial work period, no impact whatsoever on the SGA decision, the 
EPE, none of that. 

    Again, it's a schizoid experience being in both of those two 
systems, but you have to remember that PASS is a SSI work 
incentive.  Certainly a person could have a PASS, because they 
are on SSI, but has no bearing whatsoever on what is going on 
with their Title 2.  You have to keep that in mind.  So always 
if you are looking at down the road, if you start this job, what 
is going to happen, let's figure in the PASS, remember you 
always start first with, given what you are going to be doing at 
this point, are you still going to be getting your Title 2 check 
or not?  Always start first with figuring out, is there a cash 
benefit, Title 2 in play right now?  Because you cannot possibly 
look at what is, how much SSI you are going to have and how much 
you can afford to set aside in the PASS until you figure out 
first whether or not there is a cash benefit from Title 2 
figuring into the SSI calculation formula. 

    It is true though, remember that some costs, it might be in 
the PASS, some expenses might be, might would have also 
qualified as IRWE.  If it's in the PASS, the person is not going 
to count it as an IRWE for their SSI calculation because you 
count it off in PASS on step 3.  But you could simultaneously be 
taking that IRWE cost, that you got rolled in your PASS for the 
SSI calculation, you can simultaneously be having it counting as 
an IRWE for the SGA test on the Title 2 side of the world.  It 
is legal, very appropriate, to do simultaneously counting of one 
expense as a PASS for the SSI calculation, and an IRWE for the 
Title 2 calculation.  That is doable. 

    Remember an individual may have completely two different 
claims reps for the two different programs.  They have to 
remember to report the IRWE expenses and get those approved by 
the CR that is handling the Title 2 case, instead of just 
assuming that that is going to be pulled off of that PASS, 
approved PASS plan, and coming over and affecting the SGA test.  
You know what happens when we assume things. 

    Student earned income exclusion.  If an individual could 
qualify for SEIE, they are under 22, they are going to school, 
then the SEIE is going to automatically go into play.  It comes 
first.  It's taken prior to learning what your total countable 
income is.  Doesn't it?  You have to remember, months they may 
be in, if they haven't met the annual amount for the SEIE, you 
are going to have less to work with on line 3, because the SEIE 
will pull down the countable earned income. 

    Then maybe the person will be finishing high school, and they 
are not going on to post-secondary.  And when June comes, there 
is no more SEIE.  So when you are laying out the PASS, you have 
to lay that out that they may not be contributing as much to the 
PASS during the months of the SEIE in place.  Then that 
contribution may go up at a later point in time. 

    I hear some people sometimes making a very false statement, 
and I want you to watch out for this.  They will say a person 
who has SEIE and they have earned income only, there is no need 
to write a PASS because they are going to not have any earned 
income taken off anyway.  Because the SEIE is going to take it 
off.  Wrong.  Because even if it wouldn't change the income 
amount, having a PASS put in place can allow them to take that 
extra income they are getting, due to the SEIE and exclude it 
under the resource test.  If they don't do that, they can't save 
the money up.  The $2,000 resource limit is there. Say during 
high school they are trying to work, using SEIE to have more 
income there in order to save it for college.  If they don't set 
up a PASS, they can't save that money up towards tuition.  
Absolutely they are still very much a good candidate for a PASS.  
It's just that they wouldn't be putting in as much earned 
income.  Hope that makes sense to you. 

    Just remember, you can't count it as an IRWE and a PASS at the 
same time in the SSI formula.  But once a PASS is done, you have 
met your goal, you are stabilized in employment, the PASS has 
been successfully completed, maybe some of those things being 
counted as PASS expense are expenses that still exist and could 
have counted as an IRWE.  At the point that the PASS ends, ask 
your claims representative to count IRWEs as IRWEs from that 
point forward.  You wouldn't get 100 percent recoups but up to a 
50 percent recoups of those funds.  That is important to 
remember. 

    With work expense, same thing, you can't simultaneously count 
as a PASS expense in a BWE.  But in the PASS if some of those 
expenses would have counted in the BWE, you could have taken off 
step 2 off of the countable earned income rather than off step 
3, total countable income.

    Good idea to run questionable expenses, in other words, I 
don't know if you can have this in a PASS or not.  Our theory, 
Lucy Miller is famous for this, running up the flagpole and 
seeing if it flies.  You know for sure it's not approvable, you 
never ask if you don't write it in the PASS.  But if you don't 
want to write it in the PASS and have it disapproved, you can 
call the Social Security PASS specialist and talk it through.  
They can give you a good read on whether or not some of the 
questionable expenses or situations are worth writing it up and 
submitting it.  Don't hesitate to give them a call and say, here 
is the deal.  Give us some input.  Because we are trying to 
decide whether or not it's worth it to work this whole PASS up. 
    Use those resources. 
	
    That's the end of our presentation.  My presentation to you 
for today. 
    But here is homework to do.  Then of course, we will have a 
chat room session.  But here is your homework.  In your 
resources list, towards the bottom is listed Sharon case study.  
That case study comes out of the core manual for the BPAO 
specialist.  Some of you may remember it.  However, we usually 
don't get to it in the course.  I want you to do it tonight.  It 
won't take time to do it.  Don't start yelling at me.  I want 
you to read through the scenario and give thought to the 
questions below it, questions about why or, why in your mind 
does this person look like they might be a good candidate or not 
a good candidate for a PASS.  Then start playing around with 
some of the information that is there, you can take literary 
license with it.  You can make a few factors up if you want to.  
See what you come up with in terms of, if Sharon was your 
client, what you might be able to work up in the way of a 
potential PASS for Sharon.  I want to clarify one thing.  It 
talks about the VRs willing to pay half of her tuition, and 
college expenses to go to this college she wants to go to.  Then 
it leaves a number in parentheses, I think it's 2700 if I 
remember correctly.  That is how much VRs willing to do, minus 
any Pell grants.  You got to assume that that 2700 is half.  The 
whole amount would be twice that amount.  She has to figure out 
how to come up with the other half, other than Pell grants or 
scholarships which would come off the VR's half of it.  If you 
are wondering why would VR only do half, it's because it's a 
private school.  It's more expensive than a state school.  They 
are saying we will only reimburse up to what the state tuition 
would be. 

    Take some time.  Just a few minutes.  Look at that case study.  
You don't have to turn it in.  But tomorrow, we will have a 
little bit of time.  I'll be referring to that Sharon case study 
as we go through tomorrow's lecture.  If you have questions 
about it at the end of tomorrow's lecture, you will already have 
had chances to think it through.  Good luck with that we will 
see you tomorrow. 

***