MARCH 15, 2010
VCU WEBCAST



   >>  Hello.  Welcome.  This is Parent Educational Advocacy 
Training Center, Next Steps Transition Training Program. 
   We are working in partnership with Virginia Commonwealth 
University RRTC, funded by a grant from the U.S. Department of 
Education Rehabilitation Services Administration.  This 
webinar is a program around the transition of youth with 
disabilities into adult life. 
   And today, we are excited to have some young people from the 
National Youth Leadership Network.  Back in our office, we are 
talking about, well, what do young people with disabilities 
need post school life?  And we talk to a lot of people about 
what they need, but it occurred to us that perhaps there were 
other experts who could really help us and inform us about 
what they need.  So we have invited these young people. 
   Before we hear what they have to say, what I'd like to tell 
you about are some of our other programs.  We have archived on 
the VCU Website and on the PEATC Website other programs 
devoted to transition.  And in total, we will have about 18 or 
so 30 to 40-minute Webcasts for your perusal. 
   We do offer CEUs and CRCs and for parents a certification if 
you are interested. 
   We accept phone calls, and are happy to talk with you about 
any issue connected to special education or parent involvement 
in education.  In Virginia for parents the number is 800-869-
6782; or, locally in northern Virginia, 703-923-0010. 
   At the conclusion of this program, we would invite you to 
participate in a short evaluation, and also there will be a 
web board discussion. 
   At the end of the program, don't go away, because you are 
going to be entertained by this terrific group of young people 
with the self-advocacy rap.  Don't miss it. 
   Now, it is going to give me great pleasure to introduce 
Stacey Milbern, who is the director of community outreach with 
the National Youth Leadership Network.  She is accompanied by 
Ryan Pinion, who is the director of partnerships and action, 
and they brought along an intern with them.  She is Jessica 
Smith. 
   Now, we posed the question to these three young people, what 
do kids, as they leave high school and go into adult life, 
what do they need to have under their belt?  What are the most 
significant and most important things that we as the adult 
people in their world, how can we best support them?  What do 
they really need to have and to attain prior to leaving high 
school? 
   So, we came up with this catchy title:  Don't leave school 
without it; what's in your wallet?  And they have some really 
terrific insight that I think you will enjoy.  You will be 
privy to new terminology; well, it was new to me, it's fresh 
and bright.  I want you to listen closely to the words that 
they use.  They use the words, interdependence, able-ism, 
allies, and skill share.  This is very exciting stuff.  I hope 
you enjoy what they have to say.  Don't forget to hang on and 
listen to the self-advocacy rap.  You are in for a treat.  
Thanks for joining us.
    
   >> STACEY MILBERN:  Thank you, Kathy. 
   We are very excited to be here.  We are from the National 
Youth Leadership Network, a nonprofit run by and for people 
with disabilities.  We work to create a world that is 
accessible.  The young leaders with disabilities, so that we 
can (inaudible) potential.  My name is Stacey Milbern.  I'm 
the community outreach director with NYLN.
    
   >> RYAN PINION:  My name is Ryan Pinion.  I'm from Durham, 
North Carolina.  And I'm the director of partnership in action 
at NYLN, and I've been working on an exciting curriculum that 
we are going to be talking about later on in the presentation.  
But it's about how to build interdependent support systems.  
And I'm excited to be working for NYLN and excited to be 
giving this presentation. 
   
   >> JESSICA SMITH:  Hi, I'm Jessica Smith.  I'm an intern for 
NYLN working on the same project as Ryan, and I'm from 
Raleigh, North Carolina. 
   
   >> STACEY MILBERN:  Thanks, guys.  We first want to talk 
about interdependence, because we find a lot of times that 
people kind of see it as you are on your own like you are 
either a young person or parent or teacher, and we find that 
the only real way that young people can be successful exiting 
high school is if everybody is working together. 
   So we really value that, and kind of wanted to frame our 
presentation in that approach.  We are kind of going to be 
doing this in three parts:  First, about what young people 
want, when exiting high school; then talking about our 
experience as youth organizers, working with young people with 
disabilities; and third is resources that will hopefully help 
you in exiting high school.  Our first topic is self-
determination. 
   I know personally I was really excited to learn about the 
word or concept of self-determination, because I notice that 
there was a difference in the way I was treated and other 
young people with disabilities that I knew.  I felt like a lot 
of it was connected to the fact that I was leading my own IEP 
meetings, and things like that, and really pushing to have 
choice, to make my own decisions. 
   What do you think, Jessica, about that, self-determination? 
   
   >> JESSICA SMITH:  The problem with self-determination is 
that the word is kind of thrown around a lot.  But it is not 
actually used, because a lot of times, parents, teachers and 
other people think that they know what young people with 
disabilities need.  So they kind of guide them in their life 
and how they make their choices.  And in the end, they end up 
believing what they have been told all this time, and so they 
don't actually reach their full potential, and they are not 
actually making their own choices because they have been told 
so many times what they need to do or what is best for them.
    
   >> STACEY MILBERN:  Jessica, what do you think the role is 
of an ally in helping a youth to really be self-determinant? 
   
   >> JESSICA SMITH:  I think that an ally should be able to 
take a step back, and really let the young person with the 
disability live their own life, make their own mistakes, have 
their own choices.  But still giving them advice and trying to 
help them get all the information they need to make those 
informed decisions.
    
   >> STACEY MILBERN:  I like the language, like fostered but 
not guided and talking about, yeah, following other person's 
idea and supporting that.  I think it's really interesting, 
about self-determination, is a lot of times, totally can't do 
things, it is not realistic, and what is reality and 
(inaudible) all those kinds of things, people are loving us 
and support us but also stopping us at the same time from 
maximizing our potential.
    
   >> RYAN PINION:  I think another important thing that is 
really essential to consider, when thinking about self-
determination, is for people with disabilities, is able-ism.  
Able-ism is basically a power that privileges people without 
disabilities over people with disabilities where people with 
disabilities are considered to be inferior, and that is 
something that affects.  I think also, when thinking about 
self-determination there is two different kinds.  There is a 
personal self-determination and there is a community-wide 
self-determination. 
   Definitely when thinking about able-ism it is something that 
affects the entire disability community in terms of the way 
that, the wider society views disability and views it as 
something that is bad and something you should have shame 
about and something that is going to hold you back. 
   When we are talking to other youth about self-determination, 
we try to bring up those kinds of concepts, because it is not 
just a matter of, you need to speak louder and have your words 
heard and things like that, but there is really big things 
within the community that we have to fight against, that in 
order to achieve self-determination for the whole disability 
community.  I think important things for you to have 
conversations about when thinking about self-determination.  
What do you guys think? 
   >>  Right on. 
   >>  I agree. 
   
   >> STACEY MILBERN:  I guess some resources to think about 
before exiting or tips I guess is working to really follow and 
lead your IEP and plan, and also, I think also recognizing 
that you need your own plans.  You can't just attend IEP 
meetings or IEP, so something I have been thinking about is 
mapping out your support system, really thinking about who is 
in network, how does this change after high school.  Really 
being intentional about thinking through the whole thing, what 
you want to do, who you are going to do it with, how you are 
going to do it. 
   And then also realizing that after high school, everything 
changes. 
   >>  Right.
    
   >> STACEY MILBERN:  You are kind of on your own.  So you 
really need to be in charge of what you want in your own plan. 
   >>  I think also going off of that, I think self-
determination is something that takes a lot of, it takes a 
support system for a lot of youth to be self-determined.  
Thinking of examples of other youth with disabilities that I 
know, where if they didn't have a supportive family or support 
network, they wouldn't be able to have self-determination.  
For example, a family that supports their dreams and helps 
with things like transportation, and just the basic logistical 
things like that, and just looking at some of the folks that I 
know that are really self-determined, and they got that way 
because of the support system they had. 
   I think that it's really important to have a support 
network, and maybe even a support network beyond your family.  
Or the curriculum I mentioned before that we are developing 
right now, about interdependent support systems, talks a lot 
about how, we have people that don't automatically have a 
supportive family, you know, they are not, they don't have 
access to the same kind of resources and support other people 
do. 
   So that is the importance of having community support, to 
put people on a similar playing field in terms of being self-
determined. 
   >>  Right.
    
   >> STACEY MILBERN:  I think a lot of times support systems 
sounds like a really big and scary word.  I know the three of 
us, some other folks have been talking about as like your 
crew, the people that have your back and supports you.  It 
seems like that they really kind of, broader way to think 
about it, like not only your parents, but maybe you have an 
uncle, a teacher, neighbor, friends, and when we think about 
it, how many people that maybe we could call on if we regarded 
them as a support system. 
   The next thing that we find that young people with 
disabilities want is like the information we need to live our 
lives.  We recognize that no one is going to teach us what we 
need to know, so you have to learn it yourself.  So this means 
like being really vigilant about making sure, just like being 
aware of what your goals are, and then researching and talking 
to people, and finding out information. 
   I think a really cool thing has been being able to connect 
to other people with disabilities.  I don't know, Jessica, 
what do you think? 
   
   >> JESSICA SMITH:  Right.  I totally agree with that.  I can 
definitely draw that from experience, like whenever I was in 
public school, I always felt like I was the only one that was 
like weird or different from everyone else, and always, never 
have a social life or whatever. 
   Then I went to a school for the blind, and all of a sudden, 
I have like this big community and like all these friends, and 
people that I could be like, wow, you went through that too?  
So did I.  And you grow together and support each other, and 
it's a wonderful thing. 
   
   >> RYAN PINION:  Jessica, why do you think it's so important 
to have like all the information?  Not just, I think, getting 
(inaudible) from different sources, too, why is that so 
important?
    
   >> JESSICA SMITH:  It is very important, because as of right 
now, a lot of times young people with disabilities don't have 
all the information.  So the choices that they are making are 
not necessarily the best for them.  The more information you 
have, the more informed decisions you can make. 
   And it's important to get them from different places, 
because it's different types of information, and everyone has 
a different opinion and different places give you different 
information.  And, yeah, I think that's...
   
   >> STACEY MILBERN:  What you said about being connected to 
other people with visual impairment, I know residential 
schools is controversial, you choosing to be around other 
people with similar experiences.  I don't know, like it was 
really interesting, a few years ago when I started dating, and 
not being able to talk to my parents about it, and not being 
able to talk to friends about it, because the disability made 
my experience different.  But having older women with 
disabilities to talk to that are chair users and are like, 
what does this mean, what does that mean kind of thing, was 
really powerful. 
   >>  Right.
    
   >> RYAN PINION:  You guys hit on it.  But I wanted to 
reiterate that I think this systems and service providers 
aren't ever going to give us the full picture.  As you were 
saying, that's why it's so important that youth are connecting 
with other youth with disabilities and parents are connecting 
to other parents and people are talking to other people, and 
there is places people can go to find people and access 
information from people who are sharing similar experiences, 
because that's not always going to happen within the system of 
supports and agencies. 
   
   >> JESSICA SMITH:  Exactly.  You learn and grow together, 
and give each other different information, and it's great. 
   
   >> STACEY MILBERN:  Also when it comes to resources, 
thinking about who to connect with after high school, for me, 
important of being youth led programs, or disability led, 
cross disability work was powerful because it's kind of 
empowering, like you said, to be around people that are like 
you, as well as getting to lead your own life and work 
together and advocate together.  That is something that I 
really encourage other young people to do, to seek out youth 
like places and places that celebrate disability. 
   In terms of access, because I think we all want to live in 
accessible communities, what do you think about in terms of 
access, Jessica? 
   
   >> JESSICA SMITH:  Access is very important, because without 
access, without things being accessible, everyone can't fully 
participate in their own way.  And I think it would be great, 
it's always great to see accessible communities that value 
different people for what they can give, and not just one 
particular model that everyone, that society thinks of.  Like 
if you are not really smart and going to college, or something 
like that, does that mean that you have no value?  And it 
really doesn't.  So it's great to have a community that kind 
of supports those different types of people. 
   
   >> STACEY MILBERN:  What does an accessible community look 
like to you, Ryan? 
   
   >> RYAN PINION:  Going off of what Jessica just said, I 
think that definitely, want one that values all different 
kinds of skills and not just looking at, I feel like in our 
society, like Jessica was just saying, values a certain kind 
of skill, certain kind of intelligence, a certain kind of 
productivity. 
   I think that there is a lot of talk about inclusion and what 
that means, and I think it's something that takes a lot of 
work and takes a lot of thinking, to include people, on the 
one hand.  But on the other hand, it can be something really 
basic too. 
   Like in some of the organizing that I do, or that we all do 
back in North Carolina, we try to set it up where everyone 
feels valued, everybody has a role.  There is contributing, 
contributing to what we are working on together.  I think that 
is the most important thing to inclusion and to access, is 
that everyone has a place, not only a place at the table but 
feels like they are valued, and have a purpose, definitely. 
   I was thinking about some experiences that I know, one of my 
friends, Micah, who Stacey, you know a lot about, or if you 
wanted to mention....
   
   >> STACEY MILBERN:  Sure.  (Distorted audio) young people 
need to know when leaving high school, the world is not going 
to be accessible to you, so you have to make it accessible. 
   You have to hold people accountable, know your rights, know 
what you deserve as a human being.  My friend Micah has been 
doing an amazing job with, Micah Feldman lives in Michigan, 
and he is a person with a developmental disability and attends 
Oakland University through an options program that allows 
people with cognitive disabilities to go to class and learn 
and be around their peers.  Micah has been fighting to live in 
the dorms there. 
   
   The big thing the school has been saying is that no, Micah 
is a liability, people with disabilities are liabilities; you 
don't know what is going to happen.  And Micah has been 
fighting them for like two years.  The case has finally 
determined that Micah could live in a dorm.  He moved in last 
week.  That is a perfect example of self-advocacy that affects 
not only your rights but also your community, because now 
there is a precedent that when people with cognitive 
disabilities join these programs and go to college, that they 
can live in dorms. 
   
   I don't know, just really have to know Micah because I feel 
a lot of times young people with disabilities, we accept the 
world as it is, but it is never going to be accessible to us 
unless we fight and we make it accessible.  Like I said 
earlier, know our rights and what we deserve. 
   
   >> RYAN PINION:  Also, I think people hear access, most 
people think physical access first.  Not to go into every 
different accommodations that is needed to make somebody 
accessible, but I think that one that gets forgotten about a 
lot is accessible language.  And we used to accommodate 
different kinds of learning styles.  What NYLN does, every 
document that we create, we try to make it at 8th grade 
reading level, and there is a way to check for that on the 
computer, which you will probably get into in a second.
   But we work to teach other people how to be accessible in 
our language.  I think in the professional field, a lot of 
folks are used to using big terminology, and we have a lot of 
abbreviations and things like that, and a lot of times, youth 
aren't getting information they need because the information 
isn't being given in an accessible format, which seems like an 
easy fix a lot of the time. 
   Then also, around accommodating different kinds of learning 
styles.  One thing, the curriculum that we are working on 
right now, we are trying to use a popular education approach, 
where it's not just going to be one person lecturing to a room 
full of people, but it is going to be pulling from each and 
every person's experience, and doing things that are really 
interactive, as and pulling in all different kinds of learning 
styles. 
   Like one approach we have tried is using different kinds of 
acting exercises, getting into a group, and trying to act out 
a scenario, to work through if they are giving information, 
solving a problem, things like that.  We are trying to present 
information in ways that are interactive and involve a group 
process, for learning, and that's super important for youth to 
understand what options are available and how to be self-
determined and other things we have been talking about.
    
   >> STACEY MILBERN:  One thing I like about education is that 
there is no one right way to communicate, no one right way to 
think.  It talks about looking at what people bring to the 
table, which I think is very disability like, disability 
community oriented. 
   In terms of resources, I would say know that there is 
nothing wrong with you if you have a disability.  If you don't 
understand something, it is not because of you.  It is because 
people aren't being accessible.  You have to figure out a way 
to include everyone, and like we talked about with Mike, 
pushing to make the world accessible to you. 
   
   >> RYAN PINION:  Our next section is community, which is the 
topic that all three of us and NYLN is excited about, 
especially thinking about, ways of thinking about community 
and support systems, and where people with disabilities can 
fit within the community and be included.  I want to ask, 
Jessica, how do you, there is a lot of talk about different 
kinds of support circles and different support networks that 
are out there. 
   But how does an interdependent support system differ than a 
lot of other support systems we hear about? 
   
   >> JESSICA SMITH:  Well, interdependent support system 
values from most support systems in that each person is giving 
and receiving support from each other.  And it's very helpful 
for youth to feel like they have a purpose and that they are 
helping other people, as well as they are getting what they 
need, whereas in most cases, it is just like, well, let's all 
help this person that needs help, but they don't feel like 
they are getting anything back. 
   
   >> STACEY MILBERN:  Totally.  I think that is where their 
social model of disability comes in handy, versus the charity 
model, because charity is helping that person with a 
disability, not what that person can get.  I think a lot of 
times young people exiting high school or just all people 
actually, or I don't know, my friends and I were sitting down 
a few weeks ago talking about skills share.  And skill shares 
are like when people teach each other different things.  I 
might teach Ryan how to make a Website and you will teach me 
how to cook.  We exchange those kinds of skills.  How many 
people don't even know what skills they have?  Especially 
young people with disabilities, because we are told we can't 
do anything.  But really, we know a lot of things. 
   Like, yeah, so I think even being able to create a list in 
things you are good at and things you do for other people, is 
really helpful, even if it's just like making jokes in a 
meeting, that is important because it makes people feel 
welcome.  Or being the person that always shows up to class on 
time, and help the teacher out, that is really helpful.  Those 
things don't get credited a lot of time.  We have to be aware 
of what we can give so other people know. 
   
   >> RYAN PINION:  Also going off of that for youth with 
disabilities, in addition to knowing what you are good at, it 
is super important to know what you care strongly about and 
where your passions are.  That is where you are going to find 
your community of people, is around that, what your, people 
that are sharing the same common passions and goals and things 
for life that you have and the same, you are driven by the 
same things. 
   I think that's why disability community is so powerful for 
people with disabilities, because especially for people who 
have a lot of disability pride and share, we are sharing 
disability culture, that we are all excited about, and all 
feel really connected to.  And I think that not only 
(inaudible) there is a connection around having a shared 
experience, but there is also a connection around being 
passionate about disability rights, things like that, that 
connects people within disability community. 
   Finding your community doesn't have to be disability 
specific.  I think you can find a community of people in lots 
of different places, based on what you are drawn to.  But it's 
important to not, to really think about yourself first, and 
where you are at and everything like that and then try to find 
where you can get that in the community.  Like you were saying 
before, really push for access, and know that you are a valued 
member of that community, and you are an important part of 
that community of people. 
   
   >> STACEY MILBERN:  Yeah, I think a lot of times, social 
life or cultural things get cut out, because it's, it takes a 
lot times to support us.  So it gets to this question of 
convenience.  So maybe you want to go to the mall with your 
friends.  But it would take a lot of work for your family to 
make that possible.  So your family is kind of used to taking 
the doctor's appointments, meeting the teachers and things, 
and that gets to be so big, that you don't get the social 
stuff.  But totally, that is like you said, Ryan, that is 
where you meet people.  That is where you find out what their 
passion, what you really care about. 
   So please don't forget those moments.  If there is a club 
you want to join, join, because that is going to be how you 
meet people.  Once you leave high school, it is really 
different, because high school you are surrounded by people 
all the time but after you leave high school, if you don't 
make an effort to connect to people, it is really easy in this 
society that you just be by yourself.  Especially with a 
disability, it can be an isolating experience.  So just really 
emphasize that.
    
   >> RYAN:   I also wanted to talk about where allies' role is 
in helping people with disabilities find community, and, or 
relationships in general.  I'm thinking about one friend that 
I have who has recently, he is 16 and just now found a real 
friend, like he's always had acquaintances, but this is his 
first pal that he gets to contact and hang out with and stuff 
like that, not just somebody he sees at school every day. 
   I was recently talking to his mom about that, and she was 
reminding me how it's a difficult life for people to, like 
what Stacey was saying before about fostering but not guiding.  
I think it's important to support that relationship, and try 
to make it work as best that they can in whatever they can do. 
   But I think also allowing the relationship to take the 
course that it's going to take.  Like my friend's mom we are 
always talking to, saying, my friend has autism and so does 
his friend and they have a really strong connection based on 
the fact that they are really similar and they have a lot in 
common.  But his mom feeling the urge to try to make sure that 
they are not, try to make sure that the relationship is going 
okay, and they know how to communicate with each other, things 
like that.  I think providing information is cool.  But I 
think letting people make mistakes in relationships and go on 
their own in relationships is really important.  And important 
in general, like I think it's, as people with disabilities we 
want the opportunity to not have everything spelled out for us 
and totally guided through each and every step. 
   Like we really want to be able to make mistakes and do 
things how we want to do them even though it's not the right 
way, and learn from experiences and stuff like that. 
   
   >> STACEY MILBERN:  Yes, I was thinking so many times I made 
a mistake and there is no better learning experience than a 
mistake, you know?  And I can think of a million times where 
my mom is like, has sheltered me or try to prevent that 
mistake from happening because it can be a bad thing.  It can 
be a scary thing.  It can be a dangerous thing.  But if you do 
allow that mistake to happen, seriously there is no better way 
to learn not to do it again, than someone just telling you not 
to do it.  I was thinking about the mistake. 
   
   >> RYAN PINION:  Also getting back to disability community, 
as a way to connect to other people with disabilities, I was 
thinking about different people that we have talked about, 
have a lot of shame around disability or like even us before 
we came to the disability community, having, not wanting to be 
around people with disabilities because not wanting to be seen 
as more disabled than we already are, or being associated, if 
we have an invisible disability, not wanting to be associated 
with the disability.  It's really hard, it's a hard space to 
be in. 
   For me anyway, it feels a lot easier to embrace disability 
as part of yourself and to find other people that are doing 
the same thing, if you can.  I don't know if you guys have 
anything to add about your experiences with other people. 
   
   >> JESSICA SMITH:  Stacey has a really good experience, 
because all experiences I have are really about other people, 
because I've never really, I don't think I've ever really 
had....(inaudible). 
   
   >> STACEY MILBERN:  I was telling you guys, when I was 
younger, I would be a chair user, so I'd have an obvious 
disability, but I wouldn't have, I had a friend who had CP so 
she is a chair user too.  She is like, there is so much shame 
around hanging out with her, other people would see, just it 
makes it more visible.  So kind of thinking about, what does 
it mean to have a visible disability?  And have your 
disability out there all the time.  What does it mean not to 
have shame around it and pride?  And the relief that comes 
from, having people understand your experiences, but knowing 
that that can't come until that shame is gone. 
   I don't know.  It makes me also think about inclusion.  
Because I think a lot of times, inclusion is not only like 
wanting to make sure a kid is included, but also trying to 
make that person as, quote-unquote, normal as possible.  And 
so I don't know, just like don't silence part of yourself.  If 
there is something you really want to do that may be a little 
weird, that's okay, you know? 
   
   >> JESSICA SMITH:  I don't think that it should be 
considered weird, like I know someone that we actually went to 
college together and we both have a visual impairment.  But 
they did not really associate with other people who were 
visually impaired or had any other type of disability because 
their vision was well enough that they could be seen as 
sighted. 
   So they didn't ever want to be seen in like disability 
support services, or have extended testing time or any kind of 
accommodations because they wanted to be completely like the 
rest of their peers.  And instead of like embracing who they 
are, and possibly being able to be or most likely being able 
to be more successful at college, because yeah, they took the 
road that made them less accessible because they didn't want 
to be considered a person with a disability. 
   
   >> STACEY MILBERN:  Totally.  Thinking back, not being 
afraid of who you are, if you need accommodations, to ask for 
them.  Get what you need to be successful.
    
   >> RYAN PINION:  We wanted to put in a quick shameless plug 
about the curriculum I mentioned before, that working on right 
now, the three of us are working on, we are working on what we 
think is an innovative curriculum that is interactive and 
basically going to be a curriculum that is meant to teach 
families and youth about how to find support systems that are 
interdependent, and also breaking down self-determination, and 
talking about concepts like able-ism and disability community 
and disability pride and culture, things like that. 
   We are having, there is going to be a conference where we 
will be unveiling the curriculum, that will be happening in 
July, 2010.  July 29-31 in Raleigh.  We are doing things, 
pretty cool, we are going to do an adult/youth team approach, 
where we are asking that if a professional or a parent were to 
come, to bring a youth with them.  It is a train the trainer 
kind of setup, where we are hoping these teams will come and 
learn how to do the curriculum and go back to their different 
places and then have the materials to teach the curriculum to 
other people.  I don't know if you have anything to add on 
that. 
   
   >> STACEY MILBERN:  You summed that up really well.
    
   >> RYAN PINION:  That's that. 
   
   >> STACEY MILBERN:  Cool, thank you.  Yeah, so you will find 
our contact information on the next slide as well as contact 
information for the Parent Educational Advocacy Training 
Center.  Thank you. 
   
   >>  Thank you. 
   
   >>  (Rapping:)Self-advocacy, we allow to survive, people 
tell us what we need.  (Inaudible) stop being lazy and get our 
voices out.  We want to watch how they react (inaudible) 
objectives at the meetings.  Following boring procedures, 
telling us we can't do this and we can't do that.  Should she 
be on this track?  They say yes, she says no.  About to 
(inaudible) we are trying not to lose our heads.  We are 
trying to go instead, we are tired of the game so they keep on 
playing.  We know what we need.  (Inaudible) but we disagree.  
So we practice, self-advocacy.  What, what?  Self-advocacy.  
You know why?  (Inaudible) my brain is about to burn out from 
all this madness around us.  Every day (inaudible) make a way.  
Don't tell us.  We are going to work hard and we will prevail.  
We are tired of the games they keep on playing.  We know what 
they need but they keep on saying, but you know what, we 
disagree so we practice self-advocacy.  You know why?  Because 
that's right, you see.  Our brain is about to burn out.  My 
brain is about to burn out.  My brain is about to burn out.  
My brain is about to burn out.  My brain is about to burn out.  
What, what? 
   >>  My brain is about to burn out.
   (Whispering)
   >>  From all this madness!
   >>  Madness.  That's the end.    (Chuckles)
   (end of Webcast at 1:39 p.m. CST)
   
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