AUGUST 19, 2009 VCU WEBCAST Services Provided By: Caption First, Inc. >> GRANT REVELL: Good afternoon. It's good to be with you. Today's presentation is on vocational rehabilitation and self- employment. I'm going to cover a lot of information. Some of it is research based. Some of it is on policies and practices. Some of it is on state examples of responsive vocational rehabilitation initiatives with persons with disabilities seeking self-employment outcomes. There is an opportunity in the chat room for you to get clarification, if there is something that you want additional information on. There is also my phone number and my E-mail address, I'd love to hear from you. Please do not hesitate to follow up with any questions you might have, or additional comments that you want to add to the research that we are doing on vocational rehabilitation and self-employment. Let me overview the areas I want to cover today. I want to cover the use of self-employment within the vocational rehabilitation system nationally, policies and practices, that promote or sometimes inhibit the use of self-employment, and positive examples of proactive policies and practices around self-employment. Teri gave you a quick overview of my professional bio. One of the areas I want to talk about a little bit is before we get started, is my history with vocational rehabilitation agencies. I've worked in Virginia all my professional life and for 15 years worked for the Virginia Department of Rehabilitative Services. I worked as a counselor and for ten years in the central office as a program specialist. In the 20 or so years I've been at VCU most of my work has been closely assigned to the state vocational rehabilitation system. When we start talking about vocational rehabilitation and self-employment, there is a framework of vocational rehabilitation which is the Rehabilitation Act and its amendment, and the federal regulations that govern the program. In reality though, to cover this topic, I would need to do this topic about 50 more times, which is for each state, which would test Teri's good humor and your patience, because vocational rehabilitation really is different from state to state, and it is important to recognize that, that when we go over the topic of vocational rehabilitation and self- employment we are talking about a framework we will use state specific examples to hone in on some positive practices. I recognize that some of what I might say about particular examples maybe won't match up with your experiences. But this is an opportunity for us to learn, and to move forward. And I hope you will get some information out of the presentation today that will help you in your own state, and improving the link between vocational rehabilitation and self-employment outcomes and a systems more responsive to the interests of persons with disabilities. There is a variety, in the first part of the presentation we are going to go through a variety of some of the research findings on self-employment and vocational rehabilitation over a period from 2003 through 2007. I spent a lot of time with research. One of the things I've learned with research is that I use it to frame questions more than to give answers. I think if you approach the numbers part of this with, where does this lead in terms of next steps, and the questions you might have about vocational rehabilitation, self-employment, that is the way to go. The intent is not to put a bunch of numbers in your head about outcomes in the system. I want to give thanks to the Institute for Community Inclusion, University of Massachusetts/Boston, and particularly Frank Smith. They have been most helpful in the research activities and supplying the information that is drawn from the Rehabilitation Service Administration 9/11 closure reports. This is a report that state VR agencies submit to the Federal Government on closures through their program. Frank, thank you very much. You are actually really a co-presenter here. If you look at what's happened with self-employment over the six-year period from 2003 to 2007, one of the, not so much assumption, one of the expectations I had when I started this research is that we would see a growth in self-employment coming out of the initiatives and customized employment, that emphasize self-employment, through 2003, 4, 5. I was anticipating there would be a growth in the use of self- employment within vocational rehabilitation. On a national basis you don't necessarily see that. If you look at in 2003, about 2 percent, 1.97 percent of people who were closing employment by state rehabilitation agencies were closed in self-employment. This is 4,000 out of 206,000 closures in employment. If you go through 2005 and 7, there has been a drop in terms of percent and number. In 2007, we dropped down to just under 1.7, 1.66 or 3200 people closed in self-employment. One of the questions I sometimes get when I talk about this information, is the impact of the recession on these numbers. Generally, in a vocational rehabilitation system it's two to three years from the point of application to the point of closure. If you are looking at 2007 for example and these are individuals that came into the system in 2004, 2005. So this information really is not reflective of the recession. We will see that a couple years hence when we look at some of the numbers. Overall, over the period of time, the number of status of 26 closures and self-employment dropped 20 percent from 2003 to 2007. There was a drop in the overall number of persons closed in employment, but that drop was only 5 percent. The impact of self-employment within the vocational rehabilitation system as vocational rehabilitation outcomes seems to have been on a downward trend over this period of time. Beginning to look from 2008 information, not at a point of presenting that in detail, but in terms of an overview, the 2008 information is consistent with 2007. Again 1.7 percent of closures in employment were in self-employment. We seemed to have hit a base here that the hope is that self-employment use will grow as we move forward. As I talked about earlier on, when you talk about vocational rehabilitation and national information, it misses a very important point. And that is the variety of approaches that states across the country use and utilizing various rehabilitation efforts, including self-employment. If you look at it, there is a number of states where the outcomes in self-employment are appreciably higher than 1.7 percent. I have put together some information on states where self-employment is a higher than that national average. The information I've used, I've taken from the general and combined vocational rehabilitation agencies. Vocational rehabilitation has general agencies and in a state where there is a separate agency for individuals with visual impairment the agency is a general agency and states where the agency for the persons with visual impairments are combined into one agency, it's a combined agency. If you see the C or G next to the state, that is indication of whether it's a combined or general agency, that the state is being drawn from. I use that information because I want to look at policies and practices that cut across all persons with disabilities and are not specific to particular population, such as an agency that is working specifically with persons with visual impairment. If you look at the list here, Mississippi, Wyoming, Alaska, Maine, New Mexico, Vermont, and all these are states that you would generally consider to be more rural in nature, with dispersed populations. I think that what we see is a trend towards self-employment in states where self-employment is a part of the economic culture, maybe more so than it is in a more urban states such as New York or California. There is a very much a trend towards these states that having self-employment as a part of their vocational rehabilitation system, being responsive to the economic culture that goes with rural dispersed communities. This is the rest of the top ten list in a sense of Idaho, North Dakota, Iowa, Montana. One state that is more industrial, more population intense state is Ohio. Ohio is an interesting example. We will talk about that in a later presentation, of a state that has made a concerted effort to put in place policy and practices and resources that are responsive to persons with disabilities interested in a self- employment outcome. I did take a peek at the 2008 outcome for Ohio. It's up to 3.6 percent of its outcomes are employment outcomes are persons in self-employment. It continues to show a growth that is really again looking at information that gives us a pathways to move forward. It is an outcome in a particular state, that is different from the other states with a more intense use of self-employment. That I think we can learn from as we move forward. One of the things I've looked at is the trend line for these states that have a higher use of self-employment, and as you can see, with Alaska, consistent, around 6 percent. If you went backwards, in Alaska it has been part of the Alaska economic vocational rehabilitation culture for a number of years. Some of the other states bounce around from Wyoming, 2007, moved, doubled their percent of persons in self- employment from 2003. Some of the other states dropped some in 2007. But these core states are usually, range in the three to 7 percent move. Some years it's more, some years it's less. But there is a consistency, in these states, in terms of self-employment being an outcome that is a part of the vocational rehabilitation system frequently. When we get to the later part of the presentation, and we do look at the policies and practices that are, facilitate use of self-employment, you will see these states reappearing frequently in terms of the framework they have put together that supports efforts in self-employment. One of the expectations I had again in the research is that self-employment would generate earnings that were potentially less on average than the income generated through other closures, in employment, an assumption that turned out to be false. If you look at the earnings from self-employment, there is a definitive trend line. In 2007, the average earning for persons closed in self-employment, $396 as compared to earnings for all persons closed by a vocational rehabilitaiton agency. $350. That difference is, has stayed. It grew in 2007 but consistently earnings in self-employment is higher than general earnings. That is an interesting part of research. Is that a good thing or not a good thing? It's positive that the self-employment outcomes generate higher earnings. But in looking at what that might mean and we will revisit when we look at the patterns across persons with disabilities and disability groupings and who is accessing self-employment, who isn't accessing self-employment through vocational rehabilitation, it opens up the question in terms of who is being encouraged to participate, is vocational rehabilitation concentrating on those self-employment opportunities that are generating higher outcome, and maybe not being as responsive to individuals who are moving in the direction of self-employment, where there is going to be less of an income generated but still an important part of the person's vocational employment goals. Again, interesting question. It is something for us to follow up on and look at more closely. But the point here is self-employment at this point in time in the vocational rehabilitation system is generating earnings for those individuals who are utilizing that service and that outcome that on average consistently are higher than the earnings through other employment. I took the states that we had talked about earlier as having the higher utilization of self-employment, and again did the same comparison. These states show the same, the pattern in terms of higher income for self-employment, but there is interesting examples. Wyoming, the earning of self-employment is actually less than the earning for all other closures. Again, when we get later and look at the diversity of the population, the state of Wyoming is responding to, the Wyoming is a state that is responding to very much a cross section of persons with disabilities as compared to a concentrated area of persons. I think this is a part of Wyoming's effort to be more responsive, be more open, and it shows up maybe potentially in the earnings area. But these states that are Alaska is the same way, Alaska is a state that is responsive to a diverse group of individuals with disabilities, and potentially that diversity is reflected in the earnings. This is the interesting part of research. When you get a certain average, when you break it down into the state areas, it gives you a window into the opportunity to follow up closely with specific states in finding out what it is that is behind some of the numbers that we see. Again, later in the presentation, we will be visiting the policies and practices in a variety of states that facilitate the use of self-employment as VR outcome. Looked at also those weekly earnings previously, on an hourly basis, it's, it breaks down the same way. Hourly earnings generally in self-employment over the period this research covers were consistently higher than earnings for other employment outcomes, the general average earning outcomes for people closed in employment. On an hourly basis, on a weekly basis, self-employment through vocational rehabilitation system is generating earnings that are greater than the average earnings for all persons closed in employment due to the vocational rehabilitation system. This is an area that I've been referring to earlier in terms of the diversity of populations of persons that are utilizing self employment as VR system. I think it's critically important whether we again go later into policies and practices that are helpful to or potentially or inhibiting use of self-employment, and clearly persons with a visual impairment as basis for their disability are the highest percent in terms of persons closed in self-employment. 4.9 percent of persons in this disability area are closed in self- employment. This is for the general combined agency. This is not including the information for agencies that are special agencies for persons with visual impairment. As you also look at persons with an orthopedic, primary orthopedic disability, also the higher utilizers of self- employment. If you look at persons with intellectual disability, 3/10 of 1 percent of persons in that disability group are closed in self-employment, those individuals that are closed in employment, persons with primary disability of mental illness, 1.1 percent. Both of those, and also with persons with traumatic brain injury, all those percentages are below the national averages. It's a clear window into where we are this time in vocational rehabilitation nationally in terms of policy and practice and partnership framework that is responsive to persons with disabilities. Nationally, there is continues to be primary focus on more on persons with primary sensory, orthopedic disability, number of states are struggling in terms of utilizing self- employment, being responsive to individuals, with intellectual mental health, traumatic brain injury in terms of those individuals being able to participate in the vocational rehabilitation system and self-employment. 24 of the combined VR agencies do not close anyone in self-employment with a primary disability of mental retardation, which is terminology still used in the RSA system, intellectual disability. We have close to half the states if a person with that disability, self-employment as of 2007 was not an option in terms of it showing up as an outcome. That is an important part of moving forward and again hopefully there is information in this presentation that if you are in one of those states where at this point in time self-employment is not an outcome that seems to be proactively available for persons in a particular disability area, that you are interested in, that you are working with, that you are attempting to support, my hope is there will be information that you can draw from this presentation from other states that are being more responsive in that area that you can take home to your own state. In this area of response to persons with primary intellectual disability, there are states like Mississippi, 4.6 percent of persons in that disability area were closed in self-employment. Mississippi keeps appearing in all these numbers as being a very responsive state. Vermont, Wyoming appears frequently, Vermont appears frequently across the different areas as a state that set up a system responsive to persons interested in self-employment. Alabama, these are all states that are higher than the national average which was 3/10 of 1 percent. One of the other areas that we were asking the research to look at is the utilization of self-employment by persons who are from a population Native-American, American Indians. As you can see, that the general percent of participation in self-employment, remember the national average across all population in 2007 was about 1.7 percent, the persons from these populations Native-American, American Indian had a higher utilization of self-employment across the same period. But we experienced the same drop in 2003 to 2007 from 3.6 percent to 2.2 percent. 82 out of 2,291 persons closed in employment in 2003, persons from these populations were closed in self-employment, drop down to 62 persons in 2007. There are states, New Mexico, Idaho, Alaska, Michigan, State of Washington, are states that have the highest percentage of persons, Native-American, American Indians, who are participating in self-employment, as a VR outcome. The earning history for the individuals in this population is different from what we talked about earlier in terms of the general earning history for persons in self-employment. Consistently the earnings generated through self-employment for persons who are Native-American or American Indians are less than the earnings for all persons in this populations closed by vocational rehabilitation. For example, 2003 earnings through self-employment, $283 a week, earnings across all employment outcomes for that population, 299. 2007, again, 292 in self-employment, 336 across all employment outcomes. Interesting question in terms of for follow-up, is what is the difference in terms of the nature of the self- employment for the outcomes of these individuals in these populations, are being involved with, our next step research, and we will go further with that. Let's make the transition from the research part of this presentation into the part that I think you will find interesting and hopefully will be what you can take with you, in moving forward. I've done the presentation a couple times. Usually it seems to be right after lunch and I know the research area is sometimes tough to listen to for an extended period of time. But again, the research really does frame the questions that we can use to move forward. I hope you found some of that information valuable. One of the handouts that come with the presentation is a fact sheet that goes into much more detail about the numbers that are, that we went through quickly in the earlier part of the presentation. There is an extensive detail there. There is a paper coming out very soon in the Journal of Vocational Rehabilitation that gives additional detail. As I said earlier on, if you want additional information, you can E-mail me. If you go to the Start-Up USA Website, and the resource area, there is information in all these areas for not just ten states or so that I talked about, but for every state, for whatever the employment outcomes, what are earnings, what are participation across disabilities. We posted all that information on state specific basis on our Start-Up USA Website, and the resource section. The folks at the Institute of Community Inclusion have been helpful and I think you will find their work very useful if this is an area you want to look at your own state in more detail than we have been able to cover today. The next part of the presentation is on vocational rehabilitation and self-employment in terms of policies and practices, and positive state examples. Again, my background is as a vocational rehabilitation counselor. I worked in a transition, more of transition population, school age population. Self-employment was not something that I worked with, frequently. But I think the steps that, of the VR council which follow and being responsive to an individual who is interested in self- employment are as follows. One is the completion of a feasibility study. A person expresses an interest, very much the first step is the feasibility of the idea. We will go into some detail in a few minutes about what that might mean. For ideas that are feasible or that have value, the next step is a business plan. There are potential uses of training to develop needed skills that the person might need to have to develop and operate the business. Critically important, networking with partners and resources. Self-employment is very much a team activity as we will see in a few minutes, and the importance of partners and resources and identify needs for ongoing supports. This is a plus for any business, particularly businesses we talked earlier about, persons with intellectual disability, the particular importance of ongoing supports as being part of the business. This is a template that an individual and vocational rehabilitation counselor are looking at when we start with the idea I'm interested in starting my business. Can you help me, the conversation that occurs on a daily basis in any vocational rehabilitation agency across the country. How can a vocational rehabilitation system set up a policy and procedure framework that can be responsive to a counselor in going forward with this activity? What I've been able to do in looking at the policies and practices and states like Iowa or Wyoming or Alaska, Vermont, is seeing a pattern of the building blocks that are most important in being responsive in this area. Those buildings blocks are being responsive to the individual and the family members, of the person coming in who is interested in self-employment. There are certain building blocks that vocational rehabilitation systems can have in place that are responsive to the individual and family member. There is a certain set of building blocks that are very helpful to the service coordinator, service manager, rehabilitation counselor, the other individuals involved in the coordination and management. There is interagency community partnerships that are critically important. This is the framework. This is the policy and practice framework that you see repeated over and over again, from state to state and states that have responsive systems to individuals that are interested in self- employment. Those building blocks might differ from state to state, but you will see the importance of being responsive to the person, having tools for the counselor, service coordinator to use, to access immediately, and have those partnerships, important in the community. My background as vocational rehabilitation counselor, whether it be self-employment or other areas, those were part of what made accounts were effective or were missing made accounts infective and I know that from personal experience. I set up a set of resource documents in the handouts that you have with this presentation, that will be used not so much to go through in detail, but I'm hoping that you can print out and follow after the presentation, to go into more information that we will make reference to and open these doors for you as we go forward. When you look at the individual family VR service coordinator interagency partnership, the resource number one, catalog of VR policies and practices that support self- employment this is what I found in looking at the states that are responsive to individuals. There are a clear set of policies and practices that fit in within this framework, and we are going to go through these in a few minutes on some of the core samples, and then I'll take you to some of the places where states have put together very positive examples in these areas. But individual family, direct policies and practices talk about very first thing, feasibility, persons comes in, interested in self-employment, what is the feasibility of that idea? VR agency can be proactive in responding to that or be reactive. Proactive approach is to set up what are the feasibility, what are the important considerations? There are feasibility guidelines that can be put together, that an individual can work with the counselor in going through and answering the key questions. Benefits planning, work incentive planning assistance, critical part of self-employment. Many individuals interested in self-employment are receiving Social Security disability benefits. The critical importance is the very first step of the work incentive planning assistant is being responsive to the individual and the family. Families come to these discussions frequently with concerns about impact of concerns on disability benefits. We also will see the use of plans for achieving self-support are critical part funding package that are responsive in self- employment. Having access, having VR agencies that are proactively involved in partnerships with the work incentives planning assistance group is a critical part. So completion of the business plan. As you go down the list, these are areas that are important for VR counselor to have access to, to make available to the individual, say okay, there is a clear path marked for us that we can follow. The counselor, if you go to VR service coordinator directed policies and practices, there is a number of resources that a counselor can look for, look towards his or her own agency that is very helpful. These can be things like state technical resource person within the VR agency, that person comes to me, I'm a counselor, they are asking for help in self-employment. I have somebody to call. There is a resource person, can help me as a counselor. My caseload was generally 125, 150 people, diverse group of individuals. If I had, one individual out of that was self-employment, might not be an area I know very well. By having this resource person, I can turn to that individual for help in working through the, being responsive to the individual. The counselor as a team member, vocational rehabilitation for me at its heart is a team activity. The counselor is a team member, having other resources that they can draw upon. The importance of web-based resources and we will see that examples of that in a few minutes how critically important it is having the access to the web base for the counselor and individual. Agency partnerships, policies and practices, relationships with work incentives counseling, one stop career centers, critical part of the resource in the community. Individual development accounts, as potential funding resource and working with the credit unions and banks that are resources for those. Medicaid waivers, VR agencies that have close tie-ins with Medicaid waiver particularly in area of ongoing support particularly important to success of self-employment. Small Business Development Centers, when we look at Ohio, been a critical part of the building block and moving forward and being responsive to self-employment. Self-employment, developing a close relationship with the network of Small Business Development Centers and helping the centers be responsive to persons with disabilities. Certification of community rehabilitation programs as providers in self-employment. State of Florida is active in that area, of trying to build a network of programs in the community that are resources to the counselor, to the individual, in moving forward. Pretty much important. This is the framework. This is the policy and practice framework that I have found as being a part of the states that are responsive in this area. Let's run through some examples of this framework, and put into practice. First, responsive to practices directed to the individual and family. The state of North Dakota on-line has exploring feasibility, immediately when a person comes in, interested, the counselor can access that information and make it available and work with the person, saying this is what I need to know. This is what we need to work on in terms of looking at your idea and exploring the feasibility. Again, the link to work incentives planning. And also the business planning, that we will look at in a second. Again, the North Dakota example of having a web based business plan template to work through. The State of Maryland having a business plan development course, a person when they get through the feasibility process, there being a course that is set up that the State of Maryland worked, has put together, where the person can go and get assistance in putting the business plan together. Quickly, this is a kind of summary of the feasibility study guide lines, and I've put the web link to where you can go and pull the document in the North Dakota feasibility guidelines. But the business idea, the person's skills that they bring to this effort, for self-employment, the review of the market demand for a particular idea, this is a feasibility guideline statement, that the individual and that person's resources can work with and a counselor in developing. It's very clear, easy to access. It's web-based. It's very helpful to the individual. And I think it's a part of why North Dakota consistently shows as being a state that is responsive in this area. Also, there is a web link to their business plan information, and this is the template for the business plan, and again, it's very clear, very direct, what is needed. And there is information there for the individual, there is the counselor can work with that individual, the resources that the person can turn to in the community to develop that. I think the point of this is ease of access, clarity of information, and consistency across all businesses in a particular state where it's being approached in very much the same way, and there is in North Dakota for example, there is that central office techno resource person that the counselor can turn to and be of assistance to individuals as they move forward. Some of the other examples that we have looked at, that again, the State of Florida in its effort, certification, training, vocational rehabilitation programs as you go across the state, there will be in Florida, as this initially moved forward, a capacity within that state across the state for individuals, where individuals can turn to a program that is certified, and know from the start is that these are individuals have been through the training, have the resources to be responsive. It's important for individuals and family to really know the financial support, potentially available to vocational rehabilitation and the expectations of time lines for independence. These again are critical policy areas that some states, proactive states have done and have done clearly. I'm going to move to the second column that we have looked at earlier, the systematic approach the state agency can take to be responsive to the counselor, the service coordinator, service manager, and being able to work with an individual interested in self-employment. I know from my own experience that there were certain areas that when somebody would say I'm interested in a particular job or interested in a particular area, sometimes as a counselor I felt like the lone ranger out there that I didn't have the support I would need to be responsive in that area. It's important that counselors have clear guidance, have a clear plan in place. Where do I go within my own agency to get the help that I might need? What are the steps, the feasibility, the business planning, training, ongoing supports? Where is that information? How can I access that easily? The clear guidance for counselors on self-employment, critical part of the policy framework. A couple interesting examples of state agencies that have been proactive and putting these guidances, these resources together, the State of Maryland and Rice incorporated and we will look at a few minutes at some of the links that the Maryland vocational rehabilitation system has developed with this company that are very responsive to individuals and who are interested in self- employment, and the counselors. In Florida, the center for self-employment that is critical to this effort to train this community rehabilitation programs, certified rehabilitation programs, there is a resource that the vocational rehabilitation agency has put to develop the community resources that counselors can utilize. Some other areas that I think are important, Alabama, for example, in each office there is a trained self-employment liaison counselor. It doesn't mean every person interested in self-employment is going to go to that counselor, but it does mean in each office there is a person that a counselor that is maybe less experienced with self-employment can go to as a mentor, for assisting an individual that is coming through working through the self-employment process. Maryland, for example, has put together a very succinct and clear policy statement on how to respond across different areas. And I've talked earlier about the limited number of states that are responsive in the area of persons with intellectual disability particularly persons that are, need to utilize in the sense supported self-employment, where there are certain functions this individual can perform but they need assistance performing other functions and need ongoing supports. The way Maryland has set up its self-employment program, it actually has in a sense what it calls a traditional self- employment, which is really in terms of a regular profit and independence, there is a goal for individual and self- employment. But it also has a clear statement regarding self- employment with supports. The goal for that particular self- employment outcome is the business breaks even in terms of outcome. The person performs the core function of the business and there are ongoing supports available to assist the person in moving forward. In looking at policies across the state, it's rare to see a clear statement as Maryland statement regarding the supported self-employment and in a way that individuals who potentially need more support, are not looking necessarily for moving towards independence or looking to fulfill an employment dream from a goal, but recognizing there will be supports needed for them to do that. This is a way to move forward on that. I think one of the things I found is that the importance in this area is a sense of facilitator to work with the counselor, work with the individual and their family, in drawing those ongoing supports. I've posted the example of the policy statement from Maryland in this use of Rice incorporated. As you look at this in detail, you will see this traditional self-employment in the sense of independence and generating a profit, some of the resources Maryland has set up to assist an individual in achieving that type of outcome, but also the reference to supported self-employment, and the goals and outcomes that are a part of that approach to being responsive to a diverse group of individuals, and Maryland is very involved and raising its profile in bringing in training in the area of customized employment, customized self-employment, just being sure across the state there is a potential for growth in this area. I think we will see in a couple years a Maryland kind of being on the list like Ohio has appeared in terms of a state that is more population intense, but that is showing that it's moving ahead in this area, and we can see that it hasn't quite gotten into that ten highest number of states but it's moving in that direction. These are the building blocks that Maryland is using to get there. The importance of a VR counselor in having links to the community across most any service that a counselor is working to assist individual with, it's particularly important in self-employment. What I have found is that the importance of interagency and community partners, made reference earlier to Ohio and the Small Business Development Centers. These centers are, I do as Teri mentioned technical assistance for the Start-Up USA project, and I'll get a request from all across the country, get four or five a week of persons saying I live in Austin, Texas or I live in Herndon, Virginia or live in Michigan, can you send me information on resources in my particular community that can be responsive to me. The development centers when you punch in a zip code, it fascinates me, you will get five miles away from zip code XYZ, ten miles away. There will be three or four listed, for a number of states that are out there that are available. And we need to link to those and need those centers to be informed about the interests and abilities of persons with disabilities, and again Ohio has done a good job of developing that system. It's important to link there. The example of the Florida certification and community rehabilitation programs is provider of self-employment is critical part of the partnership and development. It's an area where we have lots of room for growth and working with our community programs. One-stop centers are very involved, earlier during the period of time that the Department of Labor had customized employment grants. We are still learning how to work with one stop centers as they learn how to be responsive to persons with disabilities. But frequently, one stop centers are core part of this partnership. Importance of PASS plans for self-employment, made reference to that earlier. The importance of Medicaid waiver. The states that have close linkage between vocational rehabilitation and the Medicaid waiver system, and where Medicaid waiver funds are drawn into the employment program, and potential of providing ongoing supports, in the area of persons who are eligible for the waiver, and specifically persons with primary intellectual disability, critical to the success of those individuals. And those states that I referred to earlier as being highly involved in this area are states where there is a positive link in the Medicaid waiver area. Pulling it all together, one of the last of the posted resources are Iowa. It's really a pretty much a positive example, that uses vision and success stories, workshop examples of the training, that are clear step by step self- employment process. This is Iowa, is on-line posted, and again, I have the link that you can go to, and I've put this as being an example, very positive, start with success stories. Someone looking at this first time through, has questions about self-employment, success stories is where you start. You build on success. Each of the steps are on-line, are available to the individual with a disability and available to the counselor to give clear guidance on how to go through the process. Then you move to the step by step process, so in the state, how you can be, how you can follow the dream of self- employment and how a counselor can be responsive to that individual. I would just give a very positive example, Iowa, and you have access to information and I hope you will look at it. If this is not something you have in your state, I do encourage you to use these resources as a way of encouraging your state to move forward in these areas. Pretty much getting close to the end. I want to make reference to a couple of lessons learned regarding self- employment. We have been during the recession and period of order selection. State VR agency does not have funding to serve all persons who are potentially eligible for services. It sets up an order selection that sets a priority list. There has been some limits in terms of individuals being able to access VR services. Order selections do not differentiate self-employment from others. There is the potential where someone interested in self- employment might find themselves not on the priority list for order selection. Each state has financial eligibility guidelines, each state VR is different in every state. That is an area where someone might find financial eligibility, ineligibility as being a part of a way of roadblock to self- employment. It's critical to know that information. Earning goals, for planned business, Maryland example, we were looking, they are looking for profit and independence in a certain period of time. Each state has its earning goals posted and that is an important part of the lessons learned to be aware of when you move forward. Each state, as Maryland example, there was a $15,000 limit. This can vary from state to state. The potential of VR to be responsive to participate, is somewhat driven about it financial participation guidelines. The last area that I want to talk about in terms of how to be proactively, work with, partner with VR, real important, be well prepared to discuss the business idea when the person comes in. The feasibility guidelines can help in developing that. But the individual needs to have a clear idea of what they are interested, being prepared. Approach VR partner as a resource, not as a problem solver. This is an approach that we are going to do as a partnership. Your resource, one of many resources. There is a lot of information on VR, it is posted on-line as we have seen today, and coming in prepared regarding VR policies and procedures, developing associative skills and supports needed to manage the business. VR agencies across the country actually have courses that help do that. That is an important part of the success. Blending support from various resources. VR is one resource. There are other resources that can be a part of and they are frequently part of the successful plan and blending those resources. Finally utilization of personal social capital very important in self- employment and using that work in the community. I know we have covered a lot of ground. I've probably left some questions on the table. Hope you will use the chat room in a bit to follow up on that. But I have enjoyed my time with you. And best wishes for much success in the areas. Self- employment and working with your vocational rehabilitation agencies. Thank you. End of Webcast ******